TJ leading the space team?

[littlejhova]

T.J was the red ranger in turbo but in space he became blue and second in command. did u wanted him to continue as red or were u comfortable of him in blue?

[Jiemusu]

Not that I didn't want TJ to be red, but Andros knew what he was doing, the rest of the team had never been in space, or piloted the Megaship, they needed Andros to be the leader.

They needed five rangers, Andros was already red, and Andros was hardly going to give his red morpher up and become blue. Him being red put him in a situation where he could help the rangers far more.

And it's not like TJ didn't still have command, and he did leave them quite often.

Although I somehow felt he got overshadowed by Zhane alot.

[Question]

Technically, Andros had never piloted the Megazord either before the former Turbo Rangers showed up.

[Jiemusu]

Technically, Andros had never piloted the Megazord either before the former Turbo Rangers showed up.

Don't know why I typed that lol, I meant pilot the Megaship.

Brb, edit.

My point was, anyway, that the Megaship was Andros' ship, it was his mission, and he already knew what was doing and was used to the controls and status. It didn't really make sense for TJ to come and take that over.

[ForeverBlue]

Andros was the leader and knew what he was doing. The 4 turbo rangers became Rangers to help Andros so they can stop the evil forces and find Zordon.

TJ was only a rookie leader for the 2nd half of Turbo. He did pretty well.

[King]

TJ was a horrible leader. The universe would have been taken over if he was leader. I'm pretty sure the whole Z-wave thing would have never been able to happen if everybody was following the orders of TJ. So yeah, I'm glad he wasn't allowed to lead a team again. He didn't deserve the position.

[Question]

TJ was a horrible leader. The universe would have been taken over if he was leader. I'm pretty sure the whole Z-wave thing would have never been able to happen if everybody was following the orders of TJ. So yeah, I'm glad he wasn't allowed to lead a team again. He didn't deserve the position.

Um.

I really can't wait to hear your justification for this hilarious opinion. TJ was a way more capable leader than Andros.

[DarkProject]

I told my 3 yr old that the Red Space Ranger killed Zordon. He asked me how Zordon came back. He didn't come back, I told him. Then he started crying.

That's why Andros was the Red Ranger, because he made the hard decisions.

As for Zhane, he didn't overshadow TJ. TJ needed to lead the team since Zhane was always off somewhere else or making out with Astronema, and Andros would be on solo missions.

[TokuFan]

TJ should have beat Andros up when he destroyed Zordon. That would have been funny. Then Jason would show up "Hey guys,guys,don't beat up Andros.That's my job!" And then Jason would do it!

[King]

Um.

I really can't wait to hear your justification for this hilarious opinion. TJ was a way more capable leader than Andros.

He wasn't capable enough to lead the turbo rangers in victory. Also, if they followed Tj's word in PRIS Astronema would have never been turned back to Karone and the Z-wave thing would have never happened meaning the space rangers would have lost just like the turbos did. Tj is a bad leader because he makes bad decisions.

[Super Jeff]

I thought TJ was a very capable Turbo leader. He was a good second in command In Space. He couldn't lead the space rangers because he didn't know well enough about space.

However in Turbo, he made the difficult megazords to help destroy the enemy, It wasn't successful but he still made a tough decision.

[Jiemusu]

He wasn't capable enough to lead the turbo rangers in victory. Also, if they followed Tj's word in PRIS Astronema would have never been turned back to Karone and the Z-wave thing would have never happened meaning the space rangers would have lost just like the turbos did. Tj is a bad leader because he makes bad decisions.

Not disagreeing with your opinion on TJ.

But IMO he didn't really do anything different to what Tommy did during his leadership.

Destruction of Megazords.
Destruction of Command Centre.
Main villain won.

Just thought I'd throw that in, just to show that TJ wasn't that much worse than the guy he replaced.

[King]

Not disagreeing with your opinion on TJ.

But IMO he didn't really do anything different to what Tommy did during his leadership.

Destruction of Megazords.
Destruction of Command Centre.
Main villain won.

Just thought I'd throw that in, just to show that TJ wasn't that much worse than the guy he replaced.

Yeah, Tommy's a bad leader to. I wonder if its embarrassing for Tommy fans to know that he had to call a team all the way from Aquitar to fight for him and his team lol.

[Green Elephant]

Would you leave the fate of the world in the hands of six Justins?

[Turbo_Red]

Yeah, Tommy's a bad leader to. I wonder if its embarrassing for Tommy fans to know that he had to call a team all the way from Aquitar to fight for him and his team lol.

Not saying that Tommy was a great leader, but can you please explain to me how it's a mark against his leadership that a witchcraft performing family, cast a spell on the world that turned everyone into kids (thus rendering the Ranger's powers useless)? Honestly, exactly how was Tommy and crew supposed to go about stopping Master Vile from doing what he did?

[Question]

He wasn't capable enough to lead the turbo rangers in victory. Also, if they followed Tj's word in PRIS Astronema would have never been turned back to Karone and the Z-wave thing would have never happened meaning the space rangers would have lost just like the turbos did. Tj is a bad leader because he makes bad decisions.

Considering he had no experience under his belt, he did darn well as Red Ranger. He fought legions of Divazords, saved the Phantom Ranger, and defeated one of the most feared monsters in the universe. This was all in maybe half a year.

Andros' thing with Astronema was bad, tactically. TJ was completely right to doubt Astronema's word that she was a traitor. The ends don't justify the means, after all.

To each their own, though, so this isn't me saying you're wrong, just that I disagree.

[Turbo_Red]

Considering he had no experience under his belt, he did darn well as Red Ranger. He fought legions of Divazords, saved the Phantom Ranger, and defeated one of the most feared monsters in the universe. This was all in maybe half a year.

Andros' thing with Astronema was bad, tactically. TJ was completely right to doubt Astronema's word that she was a traitor. The ends don't justify the means, after all.

To each their own, though, so this isn't me saying you're wrong, just that I disagree.

I agree here. That tends to be something that gets lost in the leadership qualities discussion around these parts for Rangers. Leadership is more than yelling it's Morphin time, standing in the middle of everybody and calling zords.

I respect your opinion King, but you're looking back at TJ (and don't forget the rest of the team was against this, let's not try to blame it all on him) in hindsight knowing the end result of trusting Astronema and saying he made bad decisions for not trusting her (I'm sure this isn't the only decision you're talking about, but I digress), but at that time that is a sound decision from someone with their head on their shoulders. Andros was far too close to that situation to make command decisons and at that time he was thinking with his heart and not his head. He'd only just recently found out she was his sister and actually talked to her about it maybe ONE real time and he was taking her aboard the Megaship and fully trusting of her after one conversation about who she really was? What was to stop her from doing what she did when she looked like Ashley that time?

Furthermore...exactly how would TJ not trusting her at that point (if he was the leader) have resulted in the Z-Wave never happened? It's not like TJ not trusting her would have resulted in Andros not knowing she was his sister. So if he still knows she's his sister either way, how does he still not eventually go off trying to save her and finding Zordon during C2D? It's not like Dark Spectre and crew wouldn't have eventually gotten her back from them.

[King]

Not saying that Tommy was a great leader, but can you please explain to me how it's a mark against his leadership that a witchcraft performing family, cast a spell on the world that turned everyone into kids (thus rendering the Ranger's powers useless)? Honestly, exactly how was Tommy and crew supposed to go about stopping Master Vile from doing what he did?

Tommy and crew had a complete heads up about what Master vile was about to do and was basically told that if they stop Rito and some tengas from putting the orb of doom at a specific longitude/latitude that everything would be all good. Its not like rita and vile were up on the moon casting spells and then all of a sudden the rangers were kids. They had the ultimate chance to stop the orb of zoom situation and choked. They had the quardinates, they knew his plan, and they had to fight the same dumb villains they fought many times before. What more could they ask for?

Considering he had no experience under his belt, he did darn well as Red Ranger. He fought legions of Divazords, saved the Phantom Ranger, and defeated one of the most feared monsters in the universe. This was all in maybe half a year.

Andros' thing with Astronema was bad, tactically. TJ was completely right to doubt Astronema's word that she was a traitor. The ends don't justify the means, after all.

To each their own, though, so this isn't me saying you're wrong, just that I disagree.

Tj is far from the only red ranger to have had no experience under his belt. He is one of many who can say that. Its no excuse.

It really wasn't that bad tactically to go for Astronema. At that point she was the head of the AOE. If she was able to be turned back into Karone than the AOE would have crumbled without leadership because we all know Zedd, Mondo, and Divatox would no longer be willing to work together. Also, it's not always about tactics. It's about doing the right thing. Going after karone who was being brainwashed to be evil was the right thing to do. If that had been Cassie or Ashely who got jacked up with computer chips to make them evil I'm willing to bet the whole team would have no problem with going after her. But because most of them had less of an emotional connection to her they really didn't give to much of a damn. Which is wrong.

[Question]

It really wasn't that bad tactically to go for Astronema. At that point she was the head of the AOE. If she was able to be turned back into Karone than the AOE would have crumbled without leadership because we all know Zedd, Mondo, and Divatox would no longer be willing to work together.

Wait, we're talking about that? I thought we were talking about when Andros brought Astronema onto the ship that one time. That was the bad tactical decision I was talking about.

Also, it's not always about tactics. It's about doing the right thing. Going after karone who was being brainwashed to be evil was the right thing to do. If that had been Cassie or Ashely who got jacked up with computer chips to make them evil I'm willing to bet the whole team would have no problem with going after her. But because most of them had less of an emotional connection to her they really didn't give to much of a damn. Which is wrong.

The Vulcans have a saying. I won't bother repeating it here; everyone knows it. But yeah, if it came down to fighting for billions of people or running away to save his sister, he made the wrong call. He was just damned lucky it worked, too; that was really more because of Zordon than anything Andros did.

[Khayotica]

Considering he had no experience under his belt, he did darn well as Red Ranger. He fought legions of Divazords, saved the Phantom Ranger, and defeated one of the most feared monsters in the universe. This was all in maybe half a year.

Andros' thing with Astronema was bad, tactically. TJ was completely right to doubt Astronema's word that she was a traitor. The ends don't justify the means, after all.

To each their own, though, so this isn't me saying you're wrong, just that I disagree.

Did Jason have experience under his belt when he became a red ranger? What about Rocky? Or Leo? Or Carter? Need I go on? The fact of the matter is that other than Tommy going red in Zeo and again in Turbo, very few red rangers have started out with prior experience. So saying TJ did okay for having no experience isn't valid, because most his predecessors and successors did a better job with the same lack of experience.

[Question]

Did Jason have experience under his belt when he became a red ranger? What about Rocky? Or Leo? Or Carter? Need I go on? The fact of the matter is that other than Tommy going red in Zeo and again in Turbo, very few red rangers have started out with prior experience. So saying TJ did okay for having no experience isn't valid, because most his predecessors and successors did a better job with the same lack of experience.

Okay.

None of them led a team to defeat one of the most powerful monsters in the universe in under half a year, though, so I'm pretty sure it's relevant.

[King]

Wait, we're talking about that? I thought we were talking about when Andros brought Astronema onto the ship that one time. That was the bad tactical decision I was talking about.



The Vulcans have a saying. I won't bother repeating it here; everyone knows it. But yeah, if it came down to fighting for billions of people or running away to save his sister, he made the wrong call. He was just damned lucky it worked, too; that was really more because of Zordon than anything Andros did.

Oh, I must have misunderstood what you were saying. But even with that, It wasn't that bad of a tactical decision to bring her on the ship. Andros's instincts told him that he could trust her and she did happen to have all of the info that the rangers needed to find Zordon. So it was good bringing her along.

He didn't make the wrong call. You're saying that as if it had to be one or the other. He could have saved her and then come in late to help fight with the rangers. Or even try to trick the AOE by having Karone call them off once he turned her back good. When its all said and done, tactically, getting Astronema back to Karone was the best decision. She was the head.....It's not like what the other 5 rangers were doing on Earth was tactically good. All they did was fight the army head on. Which is basically what they did the first time when they had to retreat.

[Turbo_Red]

Tommy and crew had a complete heads up about what Master vile was about to do and was basically told that if they stop Rito and some tengas from putting the orb of doom at a specific longitude/latitude that everything would be all good. Its not like rita and vile were up on the moon casting spells and then all of a sudden the rangers were kids. They had the ultimate chance to stop the orb of zoom situation and choked. They had the quardinates, they knew his plan, and they had to fight the same dumb villains they fought many times before. What more could they ask for?

Okay, yeah I'll give you that. But they sent a pretty large amount of Tengas to hold them off from stopping the thing, how can you make a mark against his leadership based on being outnumbered and held back from stopping the thing. That would make Jason a failure for not retrieving the green candle, or giving up the power coins.



Tj is far from the only red ranger to have had no experience under his belt. He is one of many who can say that. Its no excuse.

You're right, he's just the only one to have to deal with the full wrath of a villian in half a year.

It really wasn't that bad tactically to go for Astronema. At that point she was the head of the AOE. If she was able to be turned back into Karone than the AOE would have crumbled without leadership because we all know Zedd, Mondo, and Divatox would no longer be willing to work together. Also, it's not always about tactics. It's about doing the right thing. Going after karone who was being brainwashed to be evil was the right thing to do. If that had been Cassie or Ashely who got jacked up with computer chips to make them evil I'm willing to bet the whole team would have no problem with going after her. But because most of them had less of an emotional connection to her they really didn't give to much of a damn. Which is wrong.

Didn't realize that's what you were talking about. Still doesn't mean the Z-Wave wouldn't have happened. If TJ was leading and Andros was a blue ranger or something he still was going to sneak off (like he did as red lol) and go after Astronema. It worked out for him sure, but it was still stupid to abandon his team and Earth to selfishly look for his sister. If Zordon hadn't been there and he turned her back, the AOE wasn't going to crumble for her not being there. The main baddies (Rita, Divatox) still weren't going to follow her as they showed. What if Andros got killed up there? The other Rangers are on their own, Astronema is still bad, the others still don't know about Zordon being there and they've gotta try to find someone to replace him...if there's anybody left alive after what happens to Earth.

Did Jason have experience under his belt when he became a red ranger? What about Rocky? Or Leo? Or Carter? Need I go on? The fact of the matter is that other than Tommy going red in Zeo and again in Turbo, very few red rangers have started out with prior experience. So saying TJ did okay for having no experience isn't valid, because most his predecessors and successors did a better job with the same lack of experience.

Okay we're holding TJ to that standard then...alright. Jason allowed an innocent student be dragged into their Ranger battle and wreck the Command Center, almost kill Zordon and badly damage Alpha. He allows a Ranger to have his powers stripped of him, nearly loses all the Power Coins and gets himself and three other Rangers eaten by a monster in his first half a year. Rocky wasn't a leader so he doesn't count. The first ever Power Ranger death occured on Leo's watch, nuff said, technically two if you count Mike being believed dead most of the first half of the season.

As I said prior, under the circumstances of having to lead a team of all inexperienced Rangers in the middle of an epic battle for the planet, he didn't do half bad. He still didn't do anything that any other leader hasn't done. Everybody loses zords, so I don't see why he's getting singled out for it.

[King]

Okay, yeah I'll give you that. But they sent a pretty large amount of Tengas to hold them off from stopping the thing, how can you make a mark against his leadership based on being outnumbered and held back from stopping the thing. That would make Jason a failure for not retrieving the green candle, or giving up the power coins.





You're right, he's just the only one to have to deal with the full wrath of a villian in half a year.



Didn't realize that's what you were talking about. Still doesn't mean the Z-Wave wouldn't have happened. If TJ was leading and Andros was a blue ranger or something he still was going to sneak off (like he did as red lol) and go after Astronema. It worked out for him sure, but it was still stupid to abandon his team and Earth to selfishly look for his sister. If Zordon hadn't been there and he turned her back, the AOE wasn't going to crumble for her not being there. The main baddies (Rita, Divatox) still weren't going to follow her as they showed. What if Andros got killed up there? The other Rangers are on their own, Astronema is still bad, the others still don't know about Zordon being there and they've gotta try to find someone to replace him...if there's anybody left alive after what happens to Earth.







- They were outnumbered, but he spread the team out way to far. The most important thing was stopping the orb of doom so when Iesha said they should split up, and 3 of them ended up going after the tengas, Tommy should have stepped up to stop them while the other 5 take care of the main goal. The difference between Tommy's mistakes and Jason's or any other red rangers mistakes is the fact that their mistakes didn't lead to them losing in the season nor were a lot of them based on bad leadership decisions. I'm not saying he is a bad leader because they lost, I'm saying he is a bad leader because of how they lost. Again, the MMPR's had every chance in the world of stopping Rito and blew it.

- Ranger teams always have to deal with the full wrath of a villain. Tj's only looks worst because it was during the finale and they actually lost this time. As far as it being only half a season, Tj was red for 26 episodes. Only 6 episodes less than the time served by most disney season reds.



- What I meant was, if Andros would have listened to Tj's decisions the Z-wave wouldn't have ever happened. But you are right, Andros would have gone after Karone whether he was red or blue. My point was more toward Tj and the decisions he makes.....And Andros's decision wasn't even a bad one. Getting Astronema back as Karone, as I've said in another post, would have been a big advantage for the good guys. She was the head of the AOE. You say that Divatox and Rita wouldn't have followed her, but their minions sure as hell would have (go watch the scene where ecliptor announces Astronema as the head of the AOE. The minions all bow and show their loyalty to her to divatox's dismay) and when its all said and done, the big badies aren't shit without there minions. Also, I would like to know how Andros's plan of getting Karone to stop all this was any worst than what the other space rangers ended up doing which was basically fighting the army head on (the exact same thing they did in the beginning which didn't work).

[Jiemusu]

Did Jason have experience under his belt when he became a red ranger? What about Rocky? Or Leo? Or Carter? Need I go on? The fact of the matter is that other than Tommy going red in Zeo and again in Turbo, very few red rangers have started out with prior experience. So saying TJ did okay for having no experience isn't valid, because most his predecessors and successors did a better job with the same lack of experience.

I think TJ differs from the likes or Jason, Leo and Carter in the fact that Divatox was already established as a villain and had already grown angry and bitter at the rangers before hand. TJ and the others had the powers transferred them during a season where the villain had already been established, as was the battle. She took that out on them, when they hadn't done most of it at that point.

The only other time this happened was in MMPR2 with the power of Jason, Trini and Zack was transferred to Rocky, Aisha and Adam. Landed straight in the middle of battle, rather than beginning it.

The difference here with the transfer in Turbo though is that Tommy, Kim and Billy were already established as veterans remaining on the team.

TJ, Carlos, Cassie and Ashley having the power transferred to them caused 4/5 of the team to change rather than 3/6. The only ranger in Turbo to survive through the transfer was Justin, who was hardly the "established veteran ranger" that Tommy, Kim and Bily were during the first transfer.

Oh, I must have misunderstood what you were saying. But even with that, It wasn't that bad of a tactical decision to bring her on the ship. Andros's instincts told him that he could trust her and she did happen to have all of the info that the rangers needed to find Zordon. So it was good bringing her along.

He didn't make the wrong call. You're saying that as if it had to be one or the other. He could have saved her and then come in late to help fight with the rangers. Or even try to trick the AOE by having Karone call them off once he turned her back good. When its all said and done, tactically, getting Astronema back to Karone was the best decision. She was the head.....It's not like what the other 5 rangers were doing on Earth was tactically good. All they did was fight the army head on. Which is basically what they did the first time when they had to retreat.

Even so, Andros let his personal feelings directly cloud true thought.

Personally, in that scenario, for a situation that affected him personally on such a level, he shouldn't have been in that role at the time.

If a police case becomes personal, the officer is usually relieved off duty, because the situation and case no longer becomes a consequence of professional duty, but personal feelings.

Andros wasn't fit to make the decisions for that scenario, even if the outcome ended up alright, and Karone was good, at that point Andros was too emotionally attached to the case. He needed to step down, and someone else needed to act as the 'prince regent' to stand in.

Karone even said she agreed with TJ's notion that she should be tied up, even Karone said that she understood the rangers' logic for not trusting her.

Andros could have potentially let an evil Karone on board, decieving him, purely for the notion he found out that she was his sister. Andros wasn't taking proper precaution at that point, even if it ended up ok in the end, he should have taken more caution at that point, he didn't.

He didn't make the wrong call, that I do agree with, since it would be too extreme to say he did since it ended up being logical in the end. But what the main issue is was that Andros was too emotional attached to the situation, and would have let Karone do anything, even if she was still evil, purely for the fact he found out she was his sister, he was taking too big of a risk, and should have been more cautious, and handled the situation better.

Although nothing went wrong, it showed bad leadership skills, since leaders are supposed to use their heads, not their hearts.

Now don't get me wrong, I could write a whole list of reasons why Andros was a better leader and would be a better leader than TJ for that season... but for that scenario, TJ should have taken the call, Karone even agreed herself that they should take caution with her, Andros should have stepped down, TJ was right to be cautious, Karone would need to prove herself first, and she eventually did.

Okay, yeah I'll give you that. But they sent a pretty large amount of Tengas to hold them off from stopping the thing, how can you make a mark against his leadership based on being outnumbered and held back from stopping the thing. That would make Jason a failure for not retrieving the green candle, or giving up the power coins.

In Jason's defence, Tommy had equal opportunities to get that candle too, but I digress.

I'm sketchy on the detail, but were the tengas at that point the tengas of Rito, or the stronger tengas of Vile?

Also, it made me wonder why Zordon didn't just... teleport them to the exact spot, so they wouldn't have to fish through tengas.


Okay we're holding TJ to that standard then...alright. Jason allowed an innocent student be dragged into their Ranger battle and wreck the Command Center, almost kill Zordon and badly damage Alpha. He allows a Ranger to have his powers stripped of him, nearly loses all the Power Coins and gets himself and three other Rangers eaten by a monster in his first half a year. Rocky wasn't a leader so he doesn't count. The first ever Power Ranger death occured on Leo's watch, nuff said, technically two if you count Mike being believed dead most of the first half of the season.

As I said prior, under the circumstances of having to lead a team of all inexperienced Rangers in the middle of an epic battle for the planet, he didn't do half bad. He still didn't do anything that any other leader hasn't done. Everybody loses zords, so I don't see why he's getting singled out for it.

In all honesty, like I said before, TJ didn't do anything majorly bad that the apparent legend of "Tommy Oliver" didn't do as white ranger.

Not only that, but if you look at it, TJ only did what he did in half a year with little experience, and it happened all at the same time, which in all fairness is overwhelming.

Now Tommy failed as a leader in the end of MMPR2 even with about a years experience as the green ranger and half a year as the white ranger prior, then lost AGAIN at the end of MMPR3. If the experience he had from the first incident wasn't enough, the same experience added with yet more experience didn't even stop him from failing a year later, and it wasn't like both incidents happened at similar types, they were spread out over a year and easier to tackle seperately, Tommy really had no excuse.

SO that's why I don't judge TJ too heavily, I think personally he did a grand job considering his half a year + bitterness of villain from previous half year + straight in the middle of battle rather than starting a new battle to lead + everything bad happened at once and was overwhelming for a leader with his duration.

I mean yes, he lost, but so did Tommy, if enough people don't judge Tommy down for messing up badly as leader (who should know even better than TJ and had much less excuses to fall back on), I don't think it's fair to give TJ the same treatment.

[Turbo_Red]

^^^ I agree with most of what you said. I just don't see how anyone can call TJ a "horrible" leader based on things that EVERY single Red Ranger does pretty much (not saying you're calling him a terrible leader, just speaking generally here). Every leader has lost at least one set of zords during they're tenure. Jason lost the Dinozords, Tommy lost the Thunderzords, Ninjazords and Shogun zords. TJ lost the Turbo Megazord and Rescue zords. Andros lost the Delta Megazord and Mega Winger. Leo lost the Astro Megaship. Carter lost the Lightspeed and Supertrain Megazords. The list of lost zords and bases can go on and on, so I don't see why TJ is singled out for the loss of the zords.

For the record though Jiemusu I don't consider Jason a failure or anything, I was just listing that as a way of nitpicking his leadership since that's what's going on with TJ.

You also made a point I was trying to make. The difference with TJ and the others lacking experience is the fact that they have at least a grace period with their villain. Rita gets freed from the dumpster, wants to take over Earth and is stopped by the Rangers whom she spends the next year underestimating and gradually getting more pissed off at. Tommy is leader now he spends the next two years or so pissing off Lord Zedd and then Rita again and making the Ranger reputation grow. Then they piss off Mondo who, like Rita and Zedd before him took them lightly and the more they defeated him, the more pissed he got. Then came Divatox, the Rangers reputation had spread to her (notice the way she says Power Ranger in the movie when telling Zordon she had Kim and Jason, she was basically saying how unimpressed she was with the Rangers) she took them likely and they ruined her plans for Maligore, she brought an army with her in the begining of Turbo to go after them.

She came to Earth specifically to get revenge on the Rangers, she wasn't there trying to take over the world like everyone else, she was there specifically to kill them. They leave and then drop TJ and crew right into the middle of this crazy woman's quest for vengance. The gloves were off by that point for Divatox (unlike the others who get to start they're careers with the villains still not taking them seriously) and TJ and crew had inherited the Power Ranger reputation among the villain community. That's alot to take on for someone who had no intention whatsoever of doing anything even remotely related to being a Ranger.

That's another thing they have. Just about every Ranger team except maybe Lightspeed and Operation Overdrive features a team of Rangers who are friends, classmates or somehow know each other. TJ had just met Cassie the day they became Rangers, the two of them had never met Carlos, Ashley and Justin and it's not really known how well Justin knew Carlos and Ashley, but that's full team of people being thrown into an ongoing blood feud (at that point) they aren't familiar with each other and even their mentors were still fairly new to that particular battle in Dimitria and Alpha 6. Point being, you really can't grade TJ's perfomance like any other leader/Red Ranger as his circumstances were DRASTICALLY different.

[Jiemusu]

^^^ I agree with most of what you said. I just don't see how anyone can call TJ a "horrible" leader based on things that EVERY single Red Ranger does pretty much (not saying you're calling him a terrible leader, just speaking generally here). Every leader has lost at least one set of zords during they're tenure. Jason lost the Dinozords, Tommy lost the Thunderzords, Ninjazords and Shogun zords. TJ lost the Turbo Megazord and Rescue zords. Andros lost the Delta Megazord and Mega Winger. Leo lost the Astro Megaship. Carter lost the Lightspeed and Supertrain Megazords. The list of lost zords and bases can go on and on, so I don't see why TJ is singled out for the loss of the zords.

In all honesty, I can't see the logic myself, since other Megazords, like you said, were destroyed.

Personally I think people probably just pick whatever reason they can twist at face validity just to justify their true motives...

... which is, they don't like TJ as red because he replaced Tommy as red.

Just like most people just automatically diss Rocky as red without giving him a chance for the soul reason he replaced Jason as red.

The two appeared to be linked.

Also, IMO I never viewed Jason as losing zords, since they were considered to be taken and upgraded to Thunderzords by Zordon's choice because of Zedd's greater power compared to Rita.

^^^
For the record though Jiemusu I don't consider Jason a failure or anything, I was just listing that as a way of nitpicking his leadership since that's what's going on with TJ.

Yeah I figured that, but a part of me tends to defend Jason for that at default.

Plus it was another way to outline one of Tommy's mistakes.

^^^ You also made a point I was trying to make. The difference with TJ and the others lacking experience is the fact that they have at least a grace period with their villain. Rita gets freed from the dumpster, wants to take over Earth and is stopped by the Rangers whom she spends the next year underestimating and gradually getting more pissed off at. Tommy is leader now he spends the next two years or so pissing off Lord Zedd and then Rita again and making the Ranger reputation grow. Then they piss off Mondo who, like Rita and Zedd before him took them lightly and the more they defeated him, the more pissed he got. Then came Divatox, the Rangers reputation had spread to her (notice the way she says Power Ranger in the movie when telling Zordon she had Kim and Jason, she was basically saying how unimpressed she was with the Rangers) she took them likely and they ruined her plans for Maligore, she brought an army with her in the begining of Turbo to go after them.

She came to Earth specifically to get revenge on the Rangers, she wasn't there trying to take over the world like everyone else, she was there specifically to kill them. They leave and then drop TJ and crew right into the middle of this crazy woman's quest for vengance. The gloves were off by that point for Divatox (unlike the others who get to start they're careers with the villains still not taking them seriously) and TJ and crew had inherited the Power Ranger reputation among the villain community. That's alot to take on for someone who had no intention whatsoever of doing anything even remotely related to being a Ranger.

Exactly, that's basically it summed up.

TJ, Cassie, Carlos and Ashley (and Justin again too I suppose) had to suffer the wrath of something that Tommy, Kat, Adam and Tanya did instead, who each had the experience from Zeo, and minus Tanya they had experience from MMPR, thus they handled Divatox's attacks in the movie because they were far more trained and prepared.

TJ and his crew were not.

The simple analogy is them signing up for swimming classes, and being throw in the deep end of the pool by a pissed off swimming instructor for something that their previous class said to them.

^^^ That's another thing they have. Just about every Ranger team except maybe Lightspeed and Operation Overdrive features a team of Rangers who are friends, classmates or somehow know each other. TJ had just met Cassie the day they became Rangers, the two of them had never met Carlos, Ashley and Justin and it's not really known how well Justin knew Carlos and Ashley, but that's full team of people being thrown into an ongoing blood feud (at that point) they aren't familiar with each other and even their mentors were still fairly new to that particular battle in Dimitria and Alpha 6. Point being, you really can't grade TJ's perfomance like any other leader/Red Ranger as his circumstances were DRASTICALLY different.

This is also true.

The cast of MMPR1 were already established friends.

In MMPR2 you had one half of friends that combined with another half, to form 6.

In MMPR3 it was practically the same, except they had one newcomer, who didn't have any problems establishing herself in the group

In Zeo, it was again the same story.

Now, second half of Turbo, different people that came to Angel Grove (or were already there) for different reasons, and became friends with each other when they had the power transferred to them, they were thrown in the field and had to establish themselves as a group and adapt while they were expected to handle the wrath of someone that Tommy, Kat, Adam and Tanya pissed off.

[TokuFan]

[shameless plug]If you wanna see TJ as the red space ranger then read my fanfic Ranger War over in the fanfic section. [and now it's part 2] Uh,I havent seen much Turbo but I think TJ did a good job of picking up the pieces from what I've seen.

[Khayotica]

I never once accused TJ of being a bad leader. On the contrary, I liked TJ. All I ever said was that him being inexperienced could not be used as an excuse as to whether he was a bad leader or not, because most of the red rangers have been inexperienced. Granted, I may have used bad wording by saying other rangers had done a "better job", but someone doing a better job does not necessarily mean TJ did a bad job. He tried, and the only reason prior rangers had done "better" is because (with the exception of the "legendary" Tommy, who we all know I don't like), no one had previously lost the command center and all the ranger powers.
I present this to all the people who claim TJ was a failure. The legendary Tommy not only lost his green ranger powers twice, but his team also lost their powers as a whole not once, but TWICE. So comparatively, maybe TJ didn't do such a bad job after all :O

[Jiemusu]

TJ really did have the potential to be a great leader, he was just thrown in difficult circumstances and only had half a year to show his glory, then was bumped straight down to blue because Andros was already red. He never really got a full season to "start".

[Super Jeff]

If you did notice though when he got his rd ranger powers back, In forever red TJ seemed lead Leo in the fight against that one droid. Of coarse that is what it looked like to me.

[Super Jeff]

Also in Space, when Cassie and Ashly were fighting over who would do dishes, TJ volunteered Himself, Andros, and Carlos to do them. Andros seemed weirded out but he followed what TJ said. So maybe their is a mutual leadership at times.

[Billy Jarvis Stewart]

I would have liked to see him as red, but being blue didn't hurt him so it don't matter. It was like a Co-Leadership anyway.

[TokuFan]

In my fanfic,Andros is dead[OR IS HE?] and TJ becomes the red space ranger.

[Hollaman]

I would have liked to see him as red, but being blue didn't hurt him so it don't matter. It was like a Co-Leadership anyway.

Real talk. I would've been cool to see TJ as the Red Space Ranger. He did a good job in Turbo. But he basically controls the team already. Everytime TJ and Andros were in a conflict of interest the rest of the team sides with TJ and wait for him to say what to do next. He would be doing the same thing except he would be red instead of blue.